maxmp Resample

[PaperBoat]

Hey Max! You said that the "Hi-Res" Output of PA bypasses the Android mixer and resampling. When I'm using the Hi-Res Output for output device: Bluetooth and manually setting up Sample Rate as per audio file rate (E.g. 44.1 kHz), the PA Resampler is getting bypassed, but the Audio Info shows that the Hi-Res Output is resampled from 44.1 kHz to 96kHz. My question is how the audio is getting resampled? Is it resampling by SOC or Android mixer?

 

 

 

 

[andrewilley]

Max will be able to say more, but Bluetooth is its own thing separate from Android. You may be able to adjust the rate it tries to use in Developer Options. What options are actually available may depend on both the phone and the headset and how well they talk to each other.

 

Andre

[PaperBoat]

5 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

Bluetooth is its own thing separate from Android

 

Andre

@andrewilley So, the audio getting resampled in Bluetooth stage?

[andrewilley]

@PaperBoat As I said, this is really one for Max but yes it looks like the BT output is defining the frequency and bitrate. Not sure where the requested resampling is taking place though.

Andre

[PaperBoat]

15 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

@PaperBoat As I said, this is really one for Max but yes it looks like the BT output is defining the frequency and bitrate. Not sure where the requested resampling is taking place though.

Andre

@maxmp Please respond.

[PaperBoat]

@maxmp  I'm a legal user of your Poweramp and Poweramp Equalizer apps. I really need the clarification about the resampling stage as I'm looking for a discrete DAC for my studio monitor setup...

[MotleyG]

3 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

@maxmp  I'm a legal user of your Poweramp and Poweramp Equalizer apps. I really need the clarification about the resampling stage as I'm looking for a discrete DAC for my studio monitor setup...

I’m sure you will get an answer, but 4 posts in 6 hours won’t help get it any faster.

Anything that goes through the Bluetooth stack will get handled by Android. This is addressed already in that same post you quoted previously from @maxmp

But why would this have anything to do with a discrete DAC? This should be done through a USB connection, and have nothing to do with Bluetooth. You can choose between software and hardware resampling in the settings. And you can choose what sample rate you wish for Poweramp to use, up to the limit of the connected device.

[andrewilley]

@PaperBoat If you are looking for a discrete DCV for a studio, why are you asking about Bluetooth on a phone?

I'm sure Max will respond when he gets a chance, but that may not be within the few hours that you seem to be expecting. He spends more of his Poweramp time actually programming rather than constantly reading forum messages (he was last online here on Wednesday 27 July as it happens).

Andre

[PaperBoat]

9 hours ago, MotleyG said:

4 posts in 6 hours

Sorry, I really don't know about such guidelines.

 

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9 hours ago, MotleyG said:

Anything that goes through the Bluetooth stack will get handled by Android.

This means Max's Hi-Res bypass claim is misleading.

 

=================================

@MotleyG

9 hours ago, MotleyG said:

why would this have anything to do with a discrete DAC? This should be done through a USB connection, and have nothing to do with Bluetooth.

 

@andrewilley

8 hours ago, andrewilley said:

@PaperBoat If you are looking for a discrete DCV for a studio, why are you asking about Bluetooth on a phone?

Andre

I'm currently using the IFI Zen DAC V2 with my pair of JBL 305p MKii (studio monitor not only for the professionals) feeding from Jriver running on Windows. But it's quite annoying to me as I always have to drive my powerful pc which makes my rooms environment quite hot and noisy. So I'm looking for a Bluetooth receiver and willing to pair it with PA. But if PA isn't as good as Jriver/ Audirvana to pass the audio as clean (utilising ASIO but not "bit-perfect" because I'm using a VST and PEQ) as JMC/ Audirvana then I have to ditch PA and adopt the Neutron despite its nasty UI. I also tried to install the Ainur Narsil but failed to root my Android phone.

[andrewilley]

[Double-post removed]

Andre

[MotleyG]

39 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

I'm currently using the IFI Zen DAC V2 with my pair of JBL 305p MKii (studio monitor not only for the professionals) feeding from Jriver running on Windows. But it's quite annoying to me as I always have to drive my powerful pc which makes my rooms environment quite hot and noisy. So I'm looking for a Bluetooth receiver and willing to pair it with PA. But if PA isn't as good as Jriver/ Audirvana to pass the audio as clean (utilising ASIO but not "bit-perfect" because I'm using a VST and PEQ) as JMC/ Audirvana then I have to ditch PA and adopt the Neutron despite its nasty UI. I also tried to install the Ainur Narsil but failed to root my Android phone.

With this audio setup, I’m still unclear what the reason is you are looking for a Bluetooth unit. This will be the weak link in the chain. As I mentioned previously, you can connect your device directly by USB to your DAC. Any resampling that Poweramp does at that point would be far less critical than the constraints of Bluetooth.

Since you have stated you intend to use DSP like PEQ and others, you cannot achieve “bit-perfect” output anyhow. Poweramp (and Neutron) will need to process the audio internally to apply the DSP. So you are best to choose the one that has the UI you prefer. They both have very good audio engines.

52 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

10 hours ago, MotleyG said:

Anything that goes through the Bluetooth stack will get handled by Android.

This means Max's Hi-Res bypass claim is misleading

I don’t think so, Poweramp doesn’t create some new process to send Bluetooth information. This is strictly based on the BT spec, and what version your particular device supports. Poweramp hands over the best version the device can handle.

[andrewilley]

@MotleyG Googling it, this seems to be a stand-alone DAC unit, which outputs to the speakers via line-level phono cables (with a balanced option) and there is a 'Blue' version that can receive its input from Bluetooth. I assume high-res options are enabled for Bluetooth in the phone's Developer Options, but as you say, BT is always the weakest link in a process like that.

Andre

[MotleyG]

22 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

and can receive its input from Bluetooth

Not that I am aware of, the only input on the IFI Zen is USB. The OP suggested they were looking to add a Bluetooth receiver to make this setup work. This alone would render useless any advantage of true hi-res playback, as even the best BT devices are inferior to a direct-wired approach.

[andrewilley]

@MotleyG https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-ZEN-Blue-Bluetooth-Streaming/dp/B091B238MZ/

Andre

[PaperBoat]

@MotleyG @andrewilley

The JBL 305p MKii studio monitor has -10dBV unbalanced input option beside +4dBu balanced. I'm now using the unbalanced input connected to my IFI Zen DAC V2 which doesn't have Bluetooth receiving option and yes, I can connect IFI Zen DAC V2 to my Android phone but it's not a good idea at all because it will drain the phone's battery very fast. That's why I'm looking for a Bluetooth receiver and stumbled on the FiiO BTA30 PRO Bluetooth Transceiver.

Edited August 2, 2022 by PaperBoat

[MotleyG]

4 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

I'm currently using the IFI Zen DAC V2 with my pair of JBL 305p MKii

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac-v2/

The setup quoted above doesn't use that model, this IFI Zen DAC V2 is just USB input.

4 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

So I'm looking for a Bluetooth receiver and willing to pair it with PA.

This is the confusing part to me. So if you are going to add a BT receiver of any kind, this would only be for the convenience of quick, wireless connectivity. But the trade-off is the signal degradation. So certainly any concern for any ability 

An Android OTG cable with the proper device type (micro or USB-C) to USB B connector would be better, maintaining the optimum connection from Poweramp on the device, to the IFI DAC, and through to these powered monitor speakers. At least this way you are maintaining a true digital connection to take advantage of this external DAC's capabilities.

[MotleyG]

5 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

I can connect IFI Zen DAC V2 to my Android phone but it's not a good idea at all because it will drain the phone's battery very fast.

There is no power draw for this DAC, it has its' own source. So the drain is only to power the OTG connection. Probably no different than using BT to send the signal. But totally up to you how you want to make your connections. Regardless, every connection will have limits on what the signal can do, BT is definitely the lowest on the scale.

[andrewilley]

From the phone power-drain point of view, there are OTG cables around which have two leads, one for supplying power to keep the phone charged and the other for the external USB device to be connected.

Andre

[PaperBoat]

1 minute ago, MotleyG said:

There is no power draw for this DAC, it has its' own source. So the drain is only to power the OTG connection.

My IFI Zen DAC V2 draws power from USB instead the DC 5V power input! and it's not only me there are others who have an IFI DAC facing this weird situation regardless power adapter quality.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-zen-dac-discussion-impression.917041/post-16150456

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley  

2 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

there are OTG cables around which have two leads, one for supplying power to keep the phone charged and the other for the external USB device to be connected.

Andre

Okay... this is new to me... I'll definitely check it out...

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley

10 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

From the phone power-drain point of view, there are OTG cables around which have two leads, one for supplying power to keep the phone charged and the other for the external USB device to be connected.

Andre

I don't think it will work at all...

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/using-spare-android-phone-as-audio-streamer.88169/post-991192

[MotleyG]

13 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

My IFI Zen DAC V2 draws power from USB instead the DC 5V power input! and it's not only me there are others who have an IFI DAC facing this weird situation regardless power adapter quality.

Getting a little off-topic, but it seems the solution was to use their power connector, not a generic one.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-zen-dac-discussion-impression.917041/post-16155645

17 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

From the phone power-drain point of view, there are OTG cables around which have two leads, one for supplying power to keep the phone charged and the other for the external USB device to be connected.

Something like this is what @andrewilley is suggesting. It provides a power connection for the phone to charge, while also letting the OTG connection send the digital signal to your DAC.

https://www.amazon.ca/Adapter-Splitter-Compatible-Chromecast-Samsung/dp/B0968Q7MXZ/ref=sr_1_20?gclid=CjwKCAjwlqOXBhBqEiwA-hhitEJVAe9IR5N3MQGABatHXzxYgS7WmO0CSigW2emuOJHjWOb3OCgrxxoCAJcQAvD_BwE&hvadid=230003996066&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000784&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2869534695454574921&hvtargid=kwd-362238223327&hydadcr=1528_10290103&keywords=otg+cable+with+power&qid=1659449163&sr=8-20

[PaperBoat]

@MotleyG

1 hour ago, MotleyG said:

it seems the solution was to use their power connector, not a generic one.

Nope. I tested my IFI DAC with my friend's IPOWER X... It doesn't work...

1 hour ago, MotleyG said:

Something like this is what @andrewilley is suggesting. It provides a power connection for the phone to charge, while also letting the OTG connection send the digital signal to your DAC.

https://www.amazon.ca/Adapter-Splitter-Compatible-Chromecast-Samsung/dp/B0968Q7MXZ/ref=sr_1_20?gclid=CjwKCAjwlqOXBhBqEiwA-hhitEJVAe9IR5N3MQGABatHXzxYgS7WmO0CSigW2emuOJHjWOb3OCgrxxoCAJcQAvD_BwE&hvadid=230003996066&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000784&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2869534695454574921&hvtargid=kwd-362238223327&hydadcr=1528_10290103&keywords=otg+cable+with+power&qid=1659449163&sr=8-20

No... It will not work... My Android phone has a Micro USB instead USB C...

[andrewilley]

48 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

No... It will not work... My Android phone has a Micro USB instead USB C...

Then use a MicroUSB version, there are all sorts of variants.

 https://amzn.eu/d/92pnjec

Andre

[MotleyG]

46 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

No... It will not work... My Android phone has a Micro USB instead USB C...

A little time on Google might help.

https://www.amazon.ca/Chenyang-Micro-Flash-Cable-Galaxy/dp/B09CDJ3K58/ref=sr_1_55?gclid=CjwKCAjwlqOXBhBqEiwA-hhitOqZuALx_5Vp8oNB-n0yEMwvbXu_SIsgjtocS1ALfu-7HcrQAAVzZhoC2EwQAvD_BwE&hvadid=229978695003&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000784&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6228825492909819295&hvtargid=kwd-301682984061&hydadcr=1506_10289905&keywords=micro+usb+otg+power&qid=1659456508&sr=8-55

I'm only offering some advice. In the end, if you choose to go Bluetooth somehow with your setup then you are good to go. But the last thing to worry about at that point will be resampling in Poweramp.