maxmp Resample

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley

32 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

Then use a MicroUSB version, there are all sorts of variants.

 https://amzn.eu/d/92pnjec

Andre

@MotleyG

 

30 minutes ago, MotleyG said:

A little time on Google might help.

https://www.amazon.ca/Chenyang-Micro-Flash-Cable-Galaxy/dp/B09CDJ3K58/ref=sr_1_55?gclid=CjwKCAjwlqOXBhBqEiwA-hhitOqZuALx_5Vp8oNB-n0yEMwvbXu_SIsgjtocS1ALfu-7HcrQAAVzZhoC2EwQAvD_BwE&hvadid=229978695003&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000784&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6228825492909819295&hvtargid=kwd-301682984061&hydadcr=1506_10289905&keywords=micro+usb+otg+power&qid=1659456508&sr=8-55

I'm only offering some advice. In the end, if you choose to go Bluetooth somehow with your setup then you are good to go. But the last thing to worry about at that point will be resampling in Poweramp.

How to connect my Android phone + DAC + wall adapter together using this type of cable? The OTG cable has a USB type A female and a Micro USB male and a Micro USB female...

• DAC's USB type A male to OTG USB type A female?

• OTG Micro USB male to Android phone's Micro USB female?

• OTG Micro USB female to wall adapter's USB type A female? (How is it possible?)

[andrewilley]

Something like this:

So basically it's just a split power / OTG cable. The USB-A cable from your DAC would plug into the OTG flying-lead's socket, while your regular charger cable goes into the other flying lead. So both get plugged into your phone at the same time. There are tons of variations out there, never used one myself but should be pretty similar so long as you check the connectors are what you need.

Andre

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley If I use a USB connection rather than Bluetooth and set up the sample rate as per the audio file sample rate (E.g. 44.1 kHz) in Hi-Res Output for output device: USB DAC to avoid the PA Resampler, will Poweramp's hi-res output able to transport the same 44.1 kHz untouched or resample it?

Edited August 2, 2022 by PaperBoat

[MotleyG]

54 minutes ago, PaperBoat said:

@andrewilley If I use a USB connection rather than Bluetooth and set up the sample rate as per the audio file sample rate (E.g. 44.1 kHz) in Hi-Res Output for output device: USB DAC to avoid the PA Resampler, will Poweramp's hi-res output able to translate the same 44.1 kHz untouched or resample it?

If you set the output to match the file input (44.1 --> 44.1) then there is no resample. But Poweramp does not currently have a way to have the output track to any changes to the file type. So if you have 96kHz files, you would have to manually change the output to match this again. If most of your files are 44.1kHz (most are if you ripped from CD) then I would set it to match and let only the few others resample in those cases.

[PaperBoat]

@MotleyG I've contacted the IFI Audio support and they confirmed to me that the OTG cable wouldn't be compatible with IFI DACs. It requires a direct connection. Seems like I'm running out of options... I'm now testing the Neutron and it shows more dominance on the device hardware than the PA even when using Bluetooth!

[MotleyG]

3 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

I've contacted the IFI Audio support and they confirmed to me that the OTG cable wouldn't be compatible with IFI DACs. It requires a direct connection.

I’m not sure how this influences the IFI, it literally just removes the power requirement from the DAC and charges the device. No data is interrupted between your phone and the DAC. But if they say so…

3 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

I'm now testing the Neutron and it shows more dominance on the device hardware than the PA even when using Bluetooth!

I think you are chasing a ghost with this. If you are using Bluetooth, you are going to have resampling. The lowest quality BT receivers are 16 bit and 48kHz typically, the best with LDAC are 24/96 but both devices have to support that, most don’t. Current devices are typically 24/48 by default. So no matter what you try to force the device into, at some point your hardware will do what it was designed to do. Poweramp, Neutron, nor any other app can change that. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by MotleyG

[6b6561]

https://ifi-audio.com/products/otg-cables/ I would be very surprised if you could plug in the DAC without a OTG cable in your phone. Replace the "stock" IFI OTG cable with one with allows charging.

[PaperBoat]

@MotleyG

2 hours ago, MotleyG said:

the best with LDAC are 24/96 but both devices have to support that

My Android phone supports LDAC/ aptX HD, and for the LDAC up to 32bits/sample and 44.1/ 48.0/ 88.2/ 96.0 kHz sample rate up to 990kbps of transmission rate (selectable) over Bluetooth output. That's why I'm looking for the FiiO BTA30 Pro ... Should I purchase it?

[PaperBoat]

@6b6561

12 minutes ago, 6b6561 said:

https://ifi-audio.com/products/otg-cables/ I would be very surprised if you could plug in the DAC without a OTG cable in your phone. Replace the "stock" IFI OTG cable with one with allows charging.

The IFI team has told me that OTG with an external power supply wouldn't be supported by IFI DACs.

[andrewilley]

1 minute ago, PaperBoat said:

@6b6561

The IFI team has told me that OTG with an external power supply wouldn't be supported by IFI DACs.

Did they say why? Because unless their DAC is supplying power at a decent current over their OTG cable, it would be completely useless for medium/long term use as any device at the other end would go flat pretty quickly. Or were they simply saying they don't officially support using anything other than their own cables?

Andre

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley

25 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

Or were they simply saying they don't officially support using anything other than their own cables?

Andre

You got it right... They said it's not an abnormal thing. The funny thing is that their DACs are equipped with a separate power inlet! But I think that's just for the spec sheet... 😂

[MotleyG]

2 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

My Android phone supports LDAC/ aptX HD, and for the LDAC up to 32bits/sample and 44.1/ 48.0/ 88.2/ 96.0 kHz sample rate up to 990kbps of transmission rate (selectable) over Bluetooth output.

The transmission rate is the bottleneck here. LDAC cannot exceed its' limit of 990kbps. So if you increase the bit depth to 24 or 32 bit, then the sample rate has to drop to accommodate this to stay under the cap. The design of LDAC is that it does this as required without any intervention from you. However if you force it to choose a fixed point for one, there is a consequence on the other.

2 hours ago, PaperBoat said:

That's why I'm looking for the FiiO BTA30 Pro ... Should I purchase it?

Ultimately what you choose to do should be based on what your use case is. Bluetooth provides you with a very convenient and quick way to connect and play your music wirelessly through your audio system. But going back to your original post, it seemed like you were focused on maintaining the integrity of your files and playing them back faithfully. This is not going to happen using Bluetooth, whether this is using LDAC, SBC, AAC, aptX, or any other codec - these are all lossy formats under the Bluetooth umbrella.

[PaperBoat]

@MotleyG

1 hour ago, MotleyG said:

The transmission rate is the bottleneck here. LDAC cannot exceed its' limit of 990kbps. So if you increase the bit depth to 24 or 32 bit, then the sample rate has to drop to accommodate this to stay under the cap. The design of LDAC is that it does this as required without any intervention from you. However if you force it to choose a fixed point for one, there is a consequence on the other.

Ultimately what you choose to do should be based on what your use case is. Bluetooth provides you with a very convenient and quick way to connect and play your music wirelessly through your audio system. But going back to your original post, it seemed like you were focused on maintaining the integrity of your files and playing them back faithfully. This is not going to happen using Bluetooth, whether this is using LDAC, SBC, AAC, aptX, or any other codec - these are all lossy formats under the Bluetooth umbrella.

You are absolutely correct... my first priority is the USB connection between my Android phone and DAC (IFI/ FIIO)... But if I am unable to use this method due to the battery draining issue I have to move to The Bluetooth Academy... because after doing dumpsys I'm now pretty sure that the USB is the best option and also Bluetooth will work fine if I set the "Hi-Res Output for output device: Bluetooth" "Sample Rate" selected: "Defined by the device" then the PA will do the resampling for whatever the track rate is and the flinger wouldn't touch my audio...

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by PaperBoat

[andrewilley]

The real problem, as you have identified, is that Bluetooth is always going to be a compromise - even if the supposed 'standards' all talk to each other across different platforms and operating systems.

Why not try one of those powered OTG cables anyway? It's only a fiver lost if it doesn't work, and I do wonder if they are just trying to scare you off the idea.

Andre 

[PaperBoat]

@andrewilley I have already ordered one...

[reverbel]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:19 PM, MotleyG said:

If you set the output to match the file input (44.1 --> 44.1) then there is no resample. But Poweramp does not currently have a way to have the output track to any changes to the file type. So if you have 96kHz files, you would have to manually change the output to match this again. If most of your files are 44.1kHz (most are if you ripped from CD) then I would set it to match and let only the few others resample in those cases.

@MotleyGThat is not what I am seeing here. My USB DAC is a Loxjie D30, which has a display that shows the sampling rate of its input signal. It shows 48 kHz even when I set the Poweramp output rate to 44.1 kHz. Please see the first photo attached.

The information on the DAC display appears to be accurate. When I use this DAC with UAPP running on my Android phone (second photo attached) or with the Strawberry player running on a PC, the DAC display correctly shows the sampling rate of the file played.

Edited August 12, 2022 by reverbel
Fixed typo ("now" -> "not") .

[reverbel]

1 minute ago, reverbel said:

@MotleyGThat is now what I am seeing here. My USB DAC is a Loxjie D30, which has a display that shows the sampling rate of its input signal. It shows 48 kHz even when I set the Poweramp output rate to 44.1 kHz. Please see the first photo attached.

The information on the DAC display appears to be accurate. When I use this DAC with UAPP running on my Android phone (second photo attached) or with the Strawberry player running on a PC, the DAC display correctly shows the sampling rate of the file played.

I wonder if I missed some Poweramp setting... How can I select the actual sampling rate of the signal sent out to the DAC over the USB connection?

[andrewilley]

2 hours ago, reverbel said:

I wonder if I missed some Poweramp setting... How can I select the actual sampling rate of the signal sent out to the DAC over the USB connection?

With some music playing and the DAC connected, go to PA Settings=>Audio=>Output=>Hi-Res Output and ensure that 'USB DAC' is enabled. Then tap on the settings icon and adjust the desired Sample Rate and Sample Format. Which options are available may be dependent on the device you are using.

Andre

[reverbel]

28 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

With some music playing and the DAC connected, go to PA Settings=>Audio=>Output=>Hi-Res Output and ensure that 'USB DAC' is enabled. Then tap on the settings icon and adjust the desired Sample Rate and Sample Format. Which options are available may be dependent on the device you are using.

Andre

Thanks for your quick reply, Andre.

I did that. When I set the output sampling rate to be the same of the played track, Poweramp performs no resampling and informs that its output has the selected sampling rate. See screenshots for the case of a file sampled at 44.1 kHz.

Even so, the signal that reaches the USB DAC has a sampling rate of 48 kHz, regardless of the rate I selected, and regardless of what Poweramp says. It appears that Android resamples the Poweramp output at 48 kHz anyway.

[MotleyG]

Ya this looks strange. Poweramp is even reporting “No Resampling” yet the DAC shows 48kHz instead of 44.1.

Looks like we will need to wait to hear from @maxmp at this point.

As a separate test, does UAPP have a function to resample to USB? If so, what happens if you select something like 96kHz from UAPP - what does the DAC show then? And what does it show if you tell Poweramp to also resample to 96kHz?

[reverbel]

43 minutes ago, MotleyG said:

Ya this looks strange. Poweramp is even reporting “No Resampling” yet the DAC shows 48kHz instead of 44.1.

Looks like we will need to wait to hear from @maxmp at this point.

As a separate test, does UAPP have a function to resample to USB? If so, what happens if you select something like 96kHz from UAPP - what does the DAC show then? And what does it show if you tell Poweramp to also resample to 96kHz?

UAPP does not allow me to select the sampling rate. Whenever I play a file in UAPP, the actual sampling rate of the file appears in the DAC display. Attached is a photo of the DAC while a 96 kHz file is being played by UAPP.

If I select an output sampling rate of 96 kHz in Poweramp, the DAC display shows 48 kHz. Regardless of the selected output sampling rate (I've tried all the available options), the DAC display shows 48 kHz.    

[reverbel]

Just now, reverbel said:

UAPP does not allow me to select the sampling rate. Whenever I play a file in UAPP, the actual sampling rate of the file appears in the DAC display. Attached is a photo of the DAC while a 96 kHz file is being played by UAPP.

If I select an output sampling rate of 96 kHz in Poweramp, the DAC display shows 48 kHz. Regardless of the selected output sampling rate (I've tried all the available options), the DAC display shows 48 kHz.    

Well, looking further, now I see that UAPP has an option to limit the sampling rate. This option (which I never used) lets you select the maximum sampling rate of the signal sent out to the USB DAC. It defaults to "no limit".

[Yash O]

On 8/12/2022 at 3:43 AM, reverbel said:

@MotleyGThat is not what I am seeing here. My USB DAC is a Loxjie D30, which has a display that shows the sampling rate of its input signal. It shows 48 kHz even when I set the Poweramp output rate to 44.1 kHz. Please see the first photo attached.

The information on the DAC display appears to be accurate. When I use this DAC with UAPP running on my Android phone (second photo attached) or with the Strawberry player running on a PC, the DAC display correctly shows the sampling rate of the file played.

that is the default behaviour of Android, the only way to get bit perfect audio is by using UAPP, or else get an iPhone. I have raised this Google many a times, but they don't listen  to it