Am I REALLY getting a true random shuffle every time I switch on Poweramp?

[Skylark001]

I have just been looking through the 200 or so albums in one of my main music folders, and it seems to me that Poweramp has not played any tracks from some of the albums for many months, because I haven't heard them.  Is this possible?

I have assumed that when I open Poweramp at a particular main folder and "command" Poweramp to play (in random shuffle order from every album in a particular folder) that it will do so, on and on, until it has played every track in every album, after which time it will presumably go back to the beginning.  But maybe that is not the case.

Every so often do I need to do something in Poweramp to make the app create a new (and a different) shuffle-list?  I haven't been doing any such thing, so now I am wondering if that explains why when I open Poweramp and press play it instantly begins playing (in shuffle mode), because it is "reading" from a previously composed "shuffle list"?

Thanks.

David.

[andrewilley]

Each time you press the Shuffle icon, a completely new shuffle order is generated. You can bais it somewhat towards songs that haven't been heard recently, or leave it fully random (see Settings=>Library=>Shuffle).

Beyond that, full randomness is never (subjectively) what you expect it to be. You could even immediately hear the same song that you heard at the end of your last session.

Andre

[Skylark001]

I think I understand, but can I check, please, @andrewilley? 

To reduce the chances of hearing the same track again before the whole shuffle list has been played, I ought not to start Poweramp each day by pressing the Shuffle button which is at the top-left of the list of all the albums in a folder, but instead I should press the triangular Play button immediately to the right of the Shuffle button, so as to resume progress through the most recently set shuffle list.  Is this correct?

I always close the Poweramp at the end of each playing session, and each night I power-off my phone (to save battery-power overnight and ensure no interruptions while sleeping).  So if then each new day I open Poweramp, go to a folder, then only press Play, and not the Shuffle button, to start playback, will Poweramp resume progression through the shuffle-list that I was listening to the day before?  Or will the act of closing Poweramp (or powering-off at night), always cause Poweramp to begin playing again from the beginning of its shuffle-list?

Thank you.

David.

 

[andrewilley]

If you keep an existing Shuffle session going, you will not hear the same song twice within that session. An existing session should survive closing Poweramp, and even proper device shutdowns which allow apps to close neatly.

This will only apply if you pause playback and then later resume playback using the Player Screen's Play/Pause button. If you use the small 'Play' icon at the top of a song list then that list will be played in order (unshuffled). Or if you press the 'Shuffle' icon at the top of lists, you will create a completely new shuffle sequence.

To check whether a new playback sequence has been created, make sure that Settings=>Look and Feel=>Player UI=>Show Track Counter is enabled so you can see the numbers count up as tracks are played. If that number ever unexpectedly returns to 1/xxx then a new session has been started. So if you are Shuffling 'All Songs' you should start at " 1 / <total number of songs in your library> " and it will continue all the way up to " <total songs> / <total songs> ".

Andre

[Skylark001]

@andrewilley, thank you so much.  I have located that counter you have mentioned.  In the Luminous skin it appears only when I go into what I think could be called "the single-track screen", as in my screenshot below.

So I will keep my eye on that counter now, and try to avoid anything that returns it to "1/1884"!

I gather from what you have written above that I should only ever stop and start Poweramp by way of "the single-track screen" (as in the photo below).  Usually I listen to my music with Sony over-ear noise-cancelling headphones on, so if the phone rings or someone appears to be trying to talk to me it's easier for me to tap my headphones to pause the music instantly, rather than fish out my phone, open it, and press pause inside Poweramp.  But will pausing by way of tapping my headphones have the same effect as only pressing the pause and play buttons on "the single-track screen" in the photo below - or will tapping the headphones cause a new shuffle session to be created?

Thanks.

David.

[Fitzian]

49 minutes ago, Skylark001 said:

@andrewilley, thank you so much.  I have located that counter you have mentioned.  In the Luminous skin it appears only when I go into what I think could be called "the single-track screen", as in my screenshot below.

So I will keep my eye on that counter now, and try to avoid anything that returns it to "1/1884"!

I gather from what you have written above that I should only ever stop and start Poweramp by way of "the single-track screen" (as in the photo below).  Usually I listen to my music with Sony over-ear noise-cancelling headphones on, so if the phone rings or someone appears to be trying to talk to me it's easier for me to tap my headphones to pause the music instantly, rather than fish out my phone, open it, and press pause inside Poweramp.  But will pausing by way of tapping my headphones have the same effect as only pressing the pause and play buttons on "the single-track screen" in the photo below - or will tapping the headphones cause a new shuffle session to be created?

Thanks.

David.

Observe the behavior of your headset's buttons while on the now playing screen. If it doesn't mess up your shuffled playback with Poweramp in the foreground, why should it mess it up while in the background?

[andrewilley]

@Skylark001 What you are referring to as the "single track screen" is the main Player Screen, which should be the default view when listening to music (as opposed to the Library Categoies view).

You can pause or resume music from many places though, which all do the same thing - the play/pause button on the right-hand side of the mini-player (at the bottom of lists), pull-down status-bar notifications, homescreen widgets, bluetooth or headset buttons, car headunit controls, etc.

A new playback session should only be created when you request it, for example by pressing the Shuffle button, or asking to start playing a new song list. No need to overthink it!

Andre

[Skylark001]

@andrewilley, I have been trying to maintain yesterday's shuffle list for a folder of albums, but late last night, reading in bed, I went to "Library" and looked for an album of quiet music to read by and selected the first track in that album, and then that whole album began to play in sequential order, which was great.  But this morning I found I was not able to return to yesterday's shuffle list for the whole folder of albums.  So I pressed the Shuffle button and a new list appeared and off we went.  But this shouldn't be a problem if PA always chooses a completely new shuffle list.  One might be presented quite quickly with a track heard the day before, but one can always move to the next track.

When one presses the Shuffle button, does PA always generate a completely new shuffle list?

I love Poweramp, for many reasons including all the options it offers.  It's a complex app which takes quite a lot of experience to get in command of.  Thanks for your help.

[Fitzian]

If the track counter resets, it is a newly shuffled list. There is no "history" stored (besides play counts ticking up).

[Skylark001]

@Fitzian, thanks!

[andrewilley]

Yes, selecting any new track to play (or using the Play icon) will commence a new playback order, using in the currently viewed category's sort options. There is only one 'now playing' list so the new sort sequence - e.g. listening to songs by folders/filenames, or albums/tracks - will replace whatever was playing before. You can't go back to any previous orders as they are not stored anywhere, just start new ones.

A couple of things that might help you (and this is getting a bit deep in places, but as you say it's a complex and powerful app and there is a bit of a learning curve):

• Enabling Settings=>Library=>Shuffle=>No Reshuffle means that when you tap on a new song, as long as that song already occurs somewhere within the currently planned Shuffle sequence, playback will jump to that position within the existing shuffle order, without triggering a new shuffle, so you can still go back and forth through the existing shuffled songs list.
• If you suddenly find yourself wanting to listen to a few specific songs, or even a few albums, you can long-press on them in the Library view and use '>>Queue' to add them to the temporary playback Queue. This method temporarily diverts playback for a little while to listen to the new songs without losing your normal playback session. Once the queued songs are finished, you will be returned to wherever you originally left off - which might be either shuffled or ordered playback.
• If you want to create a more permanent randomised selection of songs, create a Playlist instead. The same way as I mentioned above, long-press on whatever you want to listen to (you can multi-select at this point) and use '+Playlist'. Create a new playlist name, or add to an existing one.
  You can insert the songs randomly within playlists by first long-pressing on the '+Playlist' icon and choosing its Shuffled mode.
  It's also possible to Re-Sort an existing playlist later by using the (menu)=>Re-Sort option while viewing that playlist.
  For each individual playlist, you can use (menu)=>List Options to enable the 'List Position' memory, which means the 'Play' icon in the header of that playlist will always resume wherever it was last left off rather than starting at the top of the list again. So if you create a huge random song list, you can keep dipping back into it whenever you want, exactly where you left off.

Andre

[Skylark001]

@andrewilley, thank you!  That is all really such helpful information that I am copying and pasting it all into the Notes app on my phone for future reference!

David.

[Skylark001]

@andrewilley, last night I moved from my huge shuffled list (all the albums in a particular main folder), to one album of quiet, soothing music in that same folder, pressed the first track and PA then played through all of the tracks in that album, in sequential order.  As I was reading for a period longer than the duration of that whole album, PA then moved to the next folder and began playing its first track.  This surprised me.  I expected, from what you had said, that PA would have returned to the main shuffled list and to the last position in that list.  But it could have done this, but perhaps there is something in the Settings which needs to be tweaked.  Could you advise, please?

[andrewilley]

As I said, tapping on a single song will start playback of that song, and playback will continue from there. Any old playback sequences will be forgotten. So tapping on a song in a folder view will start playing that specific song in that specific folder, and then it will move on the next folder, etc. What order the songs and folders are sorted in will depend on (a) what Sort Order you have set in List Options for folders/songs, and (b) what the Shuffle icon is set to in the Player Screen.

If you want to stay within the shuffle sequence but move to a new song, enable Settings=>Library=>Shuffle=>No Reshuffle. That way you will simply move immediately to that song's position within the long shuffle sequence and it carry on with the shuffled list from there onward.

To temporarily listen to something specific and then return to your Shuffled sequence afterwards, use the Queue.

It's all documented in the various Guides that I referred to in my earlier messages.

Andre

[viennesewaltz]

Jumping on this thread with a related question. I have shuffle randomization set to 50% in library>shuffle settings. What I've noticed is that Poweramp has a tendency to play songs by the same artist within the same shuffle session. It will play a song by one particular artist and then a few songs later will play another song from a different album by the same artist.  I have hundreds of artists on my phone so this always takes me by surprise.  Is this behaviour expected, given my 50% randomization setting? Thank you.

[maxmp]

@viennesewaltz there is no such tendency, it's a human brain trying to find a pattern where it's not present. Giving more weight to a specific artist will require probably 2-3x more code and logic - that's certainly not there. The shuffle randomization excludes the recently played tracks from the start of the new shuffle session. If set to 100% it will move all recently played tracks to the end of the shuffle session (these are independently randomized). 

[viennesewaltz]

OK, but I have c. 15,000 songs on my phone of which maybe 90 are by The Hold Steady.  Today, shuffle played two tracks by The Hold Steady consecutively.  What are the chances of that happening?

[andrewilley]

That's the thing about chance, it does happen. And the mind tends to assign patterns. If you're looking for one specific artist, the chances are pretty low. But if you are looking to see if ANY of the artists recur more than once, the chances get more and more likely the more tracks you play.

Poweramp works by completely shuffling all the available tracks (i.e. in All Songs mode, it jumbles the whole Library). The weighting option simply notice tracks which have been played recently (by last-played date, so that would mean songs you've heard in other recent listening sessions) and moves them towards the end of the sequence. It's to avoid the effect I illustrated in my tables in this post:

Andre