Device with power

[dumahim]

So for many years I've been using HTC 10 for Power Amp.  Even after I got a new phone (LG G8), I couldn't give up the 10 since it had so much power.  I kept using it just for listening to music at work.  The G8 is horrible by comparison.  I've bought "new" (probably Chinese refurb) 10s on ebay, but the battery is so junk I either need to replace them after a couple years or get another 10.  I spent quite a bit of money on a FiiO M11S and that also let me down along with being a bit buggy.  Thankfully I was able to return it.    Now after 7 years, those refurbs are disappearing and my current one's screen is going bad.  I think it's time to let it go. 

My LG is doing fine for phone purposes and if I get a new phone I'm probably paying cash, so not really looking to replace it, but will if I have to.  Please let me know if something can match or exceed what the HTC 10 could do, either phone or dedicated music player.

[andrewilley]

When you say the HTC 10 had "so much power" do you mean it had a long battery life, or the audio output from the 3.5mm headphone socket was more powerful (presumably higher voltage or could drive higher impedance headphones) than more recent phones? Not sure what criteria you are looking for in a new phone when you say "match or exceed what the HTC 10 could do".

Andre

[MotleyG]

9 hours ago, dumahim said:

So for many years I've been using HTC 10 for Power Amp.  Even after I got a new phone (LG G8), I couldn't give up the 10 since it had so much power.  I kept using it just for listening to music at work.  The G8 is horrible by comparison.

I'm not sure what you are comparing for the term "power" you mention for the HTC10 vs the G8. A quick comparison of the specs would suggest otherwise across the board whether you are looking at the battery, processor, memory, screen size, or just about every other measurable spec. https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7884&idPhone2=9540

The real strength in LG's G and V series phones of that era was the Quad DAC. They had audio grade ESS DACs and significantly higher output than most other phones, and even by today's standard rival the audio output of some of the better stand alone digital audio players (DAPs). https://www.androidauthority.com/lg-quad-dac-1115577/

If you have a working G8, make sure you have turned on the option for the Quad DAC feature. I believe it is off by default, as it probably impacts battery life. But the difference when using headphones is very obvious.

[dumahim]

16 hours ago, andrewilley said:

When you say the HTC 10 had "so much power" do you mean it had a long battery life, or the audio output from the 3.5mm headphone socket was more powerful (presumably higher voltage or could drive higher impedance headphones) than more recent phones? Not sure what criteria you are looking for in a new phone when you say "match or exceed what the HTC 10 could do".

Andre

Output from the headphone jack.  The battery power is actually downright pathetic.  Especially with these cheap knockoff batteries.

MotleyG:

Finding actual power output numbers for phones seems to be an impossible task.  All I can go off is what I hear.  The HTC 10 has the power to really push decent headphones and have strong bass.  It can deliver all the sound I want and more, if I asked for it, but then it'd just be painful. 

The LG G8 has some impressive sounding tech (which was a main selling point for me), but it will not handle bumping up anything in the EQ since it just causes clipping and automatically lowering the level to compensate.  This is unlistenable as the level keeps going up and down in reaction to the audio output with a slight delay, plus clipping.  I've asked about it elsewhere and changed all sorts of settings, but have only been able to reduce the effect slightly.  The only way to listen to anything on this phone is to leave the EQ and Tone toggles off.  That works OK for my car since it doesn't drive enough bass to start shaking parts of the car that rattle, but with my headphones at work, I might as well be listening to youtube.  I also know it's a phone thing since I can hear it with other apps as well.

 

[Fitzian]

28 minutes ago, dumahim said:

 [It] will not handle bumping up anything in the EQ since it just causes clipping and automatically lowering the level to compensate.  This is unlistenable as the level keeps going up and down in reaction to the audio output with a slight delay, plus clipping.  

 

You describe the volume level "buffeting" so to speak, bouncing off the limiter haphazardly.

If you add a negative pre-amp gain, coinciding with the maximum positive gain you have on any specific band, you shouldn't have it constantly fighting with the limiter as you describe.  

Yes, you will lose a bit of output power at the top end due to the negative pre-amp gain. But at least the levels won't be fluctuating wildly.

[dumahim]

17 minutes ago, Fitzian said:

You describe the volume level "buffeting" so to speak, bouncing off the limiter haphazardly.

If you add a negative pre-amp gain, coinciding with the maximum positive gain you have on any specific band, you shouldn't have it constantly fighting with the limiter as you describe.  

Yes, you will lose a bit of output power at the top end due to the negative pre-amp gain. But at least the levels won't be fluctuating wildly.

I've gone through all this stuff before multiple times and I just can't get it anywhere near what the HTC is doing.   Even at 0 for the preamp it still doesn't handle the bass even at 50%.  Lowering the preamp to the min of -12 does help, but then I have to max out the volume to be at a decent level and it's still not sounding as good while the HTC is effortless and only at 27% volume.  The level on my music is kind of all over the place, so it certainly won't cut it on some of the quieter stuff.  I'm beyond the point of trying to get this phone to do what I need.  It's been 4 years of trying.

Edited November 15, 2023 by dumahim

[MotleyG]

17 minutes ago, dumahim said:

I've gone through all this stuff before multiple times and I just can't get it anywhere near what the HTC is doing.   Even at 0 for the preamp it still doesn't handle the bass even at 50%.  Lowering the preamp to the min of -12 does help, but then I have to max out the volume to be at a decent level and it's still not sounding as good while the HTC is effortless and only at 27% volume.  The level on my music is kind of all over the place, so it certainly won't cut it on some of the quieter stuff.  I'm beyond the point of trying to get this phone to do what I need.  It's been 4 years of trying.

Whatever works for you is ultimately what's important for your personal listening taste. But I can't say that my experience is the same. Even at high volumes and some moderate equalization I have not had any kind of clipping affect my music on LG G7 or G8, nor on my Android powered iBasso DX160 DAP.

What you are describing certainly sounds like the effect of having the limiter kicking in within Poweramp. Possibly a combination of DVC and high EQ gains, or even Replaygain boost. But there is no free lunch once the DAC and/or headphone amp have been maxed out. This applies to any device. Something must be set up differently to have this affect one but not the other.