USB-C > 3.5mm adapters, low level hiss

[andrewilley]

Personally I'm deploring the lack of a 3.5mm audio socket on my new Samsung Galaxy A54. I'm still trying to find a decently priced USB-C 3.5mm adapter that works without background noise. My night-time earbuds are only basic £20 ones, so no point spending any more than a tenner or so on an adapter that does what the phone should do anyway. I listen to music at very low levels at night (about 5% volume on the phone) and every adapter I've tried so far has some level of annoying background hiss. Samsung's official one is awful, horrible noise and it even keeps cutting out at close-to-zero volumes. Ugreen's is fine for daytime use, but there is still a faint hiss in the silence of the night. Apple's is just too quiet to be useful at all (known design issue when used with Android devices apparently). Some of them offered high-res, some didn't (or it didn't work fully). If anyone knows of a completely hissless USB-C adapter (even at very volumes, similar to the original onboard audio from my previous A70 phone) I'd love to hear about it.

Andre

[kamaleon]

@andrewilley look for with SNR more than 100db I've VE Abigail Pro it has 120db SNR no hiss i hear you may go for DAC chip of cirrus logic they've 120db SNR plenty of chi-fi company making this chip dongle not expensive either 

[MotleyG]

These dongles are the next best option to having a separate DAC or DAP with high SQ.

https://ibasso.com/product/dc03pro

https://ibasso.com/product/dc04pro/

[andrewilley]

@MotleyG I'm sure they're great, but a bit overkill to drive a £17 pair of night-time low-volume earbuds that just plugged into the 3.5mm socket and worked perfectly on my old phone. Thanks Samsung.

Andre

[MotleyG]

1 hour ago, andrewilley said:

@MotleyG I'm sure they're great, but a bit overkill to drive a £17 pair of night-time low-volume earbuds that just plugged into the 3.5mm socket and worked perfectly on my old phone.

True, but as long as any phone now or in the future supports an external connection (Lightning and USB-C) these will always work, regardless of what headphones you connect.😊

[Loweaul]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:30 PM, andrewilley said:

@aj. Depends very much on your phone and the USB-C adapter you are using. Some offer higher resolutions (e.g. 96kHz or 192kHz) and some don't. 

Personally I'm deploring the lack of a 3.5mm audio socket on my new Samsung Galaxy A54. I'm still trying to find a decently priced USB-C 3.5mm adapter that works without background noise. My night-time earbuds are only basic £20 ones, so no point spending any more than a tenner or so on an adapter that does what the phone should do anyway. I listen to music at very low levels at night (about 5% volume on the phone) and every adapter I've tried so far has some level of annoying background hiss. Samsung's official one is awful, horrible noise and it even keeps cutting out at close-to-zero volumes. Ugreen's is fine for daytime use, but there is still a faint hiss in the silence of the night. Apple's is just too quiet to be useful at all (known design issue when used with Android devices apparently). Some of them offered high-res, some didn't (or it didn't work fully). If anyone knows of a completely hissless USB-C adapter (even at very volumes, similar to the original onboard audio from my previous A70 phone) I'd love to hear about it.

Andre

I've seen a similar issue that someone talk about few years ago, here's the page, https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/52738527,

So this issue was so similar to yours, according to the passage, I guess it might be something relate with the internal design of the phone or just some software issues, since this kind of problem was on Xiaomi 9 again but developers somehow fix this issue with some system updates. But who knows? 

I think XMOS USB Audio Adapter might solve the issue but it is not cheap sincerely,so I might just using the speaker for bedtime🤔, anyway, is up to you,

[andrewilley]

I tried a Stouchi ST-Y3 which Amazon stated offered 120db S/N, with a Realtek 4030 chip and sample rates up to 384KHz. But I think they lied, as the Stouchi page offers no such info and states a Conexant chip with max 96kHz (which is also what PA reports as the USB output device). Low level hiss still significantly audible anyway, although sounding more like electronic circuit noise than the more traditional white-noise hiss I hear on the UGreen (which PA reports as "KT USB Audio"). I'll keep trying...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08BNGM2ZP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
https://stouchi.net/collections/cables/products/ct35

Andre

[Loweaul]

@andrewilley What about just plug those adapters you have tested before in a PC or something else? So that could make sure it's not the issue with adapters. 

[Loweaul]

and though I haven't really bought a type-c 3.5mm adpter but a lot of Chinese users, really a bunch of people recommend this one, since it's cheap and good.

A product from MeiZu sub-brand Mblu(MeiLan in Pinyin), total in less than 10 dollars, maybe you could find it in Amazon, in TaoBao(A Chinese online shopping App) is only 59 yuan which is 8 dollars.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Loweaul
correction

[andrewilley]

1 hour ago, Loweaul said:

A product from MeiZu sub-brand Mblu(MeiLan in Pinyin), total in less than 10 dollars, maybe you could find it in Amazon

In my searches I have already come across that one using the Conexant CX31993 chip(https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meizu-Converter-Headphone-Amplifier-Compatible/dp/B0B42ZML9S?th=1) but most of the Chinese products are not readily available from UK sources (which makes any potentially necessary return problematic) but I think I might go down that route and hope.

I've seen CS-Pro CS46L41 based DACs suggested too, but again they only seem to ship from China and any return would need to be sent there too which would cost half of the price of the product. Also the same product (with the same set of photos) seems to be listed on Amazon under lots of different manufacturers - see https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=CS46L41. Are these sort of things regularly sold as copies in China - none of the listing texts mentions CS-Pro, although it's on all the photos, and not one has a single product review.

Bloody Samsung, should just be able to plug a 3.5mm headset straight into the phone without all this hassle, used to work perfectly that way!

Andre

 

[Loweaul]

@andrewilley Yeah, that's the only reason I keep on purchase Redmi Note Series Phone, just for that little 3.5mm headset.

So I could say that at least 90% of these kinds of 3.5mm adapter are producing from China, and the price of them are incredibly cheap here, but if we add on delivery costs and some others, then I guess the price on Amazon may be fair enough.

I actually bought a USB sound card adapter for PS4 years ago, and I just tested it on my Redmi Note11 Pro, with a Type-C to USB-A adpter that I got it from nowhere, and using Philips SHP9600, looks like this, the brand of it called JACLLY(in Chinese is杰仕声）This sound card is based on KT0200, and it costs me only 39 yuan which is less than 5 pounds, seriously, I've never seen this chip producer before and I didn't even care when I bought it.

But after the test, I can't hear a hiss or any noise from the headset, both in minimum level of volume, using PA and output set in 32bits 96khz, but the actual volume I'm hearing from soundcard would be a bit higher than 3.5mm headset.

So that's the reason why I regard your issue as some kinds of phone issue, since this little cheap soundcard with adapter from nowhere that I have produce no background noise, I don't think the others even better than this would go wrong.😂

But if you keep on searching, that way I would really suggest you to buy something with brand, in China is basically what you see in the picture is what you get in reality, but only for products with brand on it. 

[andrewilley]

I did try these adapters on my PC too, and the same background hiss level is experienced there too. I'm sure it's in the analogue amplification stage.

Latest is that I've gone for one of the Chinese Cirrus CS46L41 based cables, with supposedly 125+ dB S/N. Not all were available for UK shipping from AliExpress (and I also looked for free returns available) but I ended up ordering this one for UK£ 7.50 delivered: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004763520790.html . I'll come back and say how I got on with it in a couple of weeks.

Andre

[6b6561]

@andrewilley this will not solve your problem but I found https://www.soundguys.com/usb-audio-explained-18563/ quite interesting, quite good explanations on the ins and outs of USB Audio.

A lot of devices supports “Audio Accessory Mode”, where the AD conversion is done by the phone and the dongle is just passive, this mode is something that Samsung has at least dropped on the the S22.

The other type is where AD is done in the dongle and uses the dongles AD chip, these will probably cause a lot of compatibility issues going forward.

[6b6561]

Take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/samsung/comments/12ouw4a/background_noise_with_headphone_adapter/ and the part about testing with HiBy.

[andrewilley]

Yeah, I've been searching a lot online for info on this and it does seem to be a general problem. I could use any from £3+ 3.5mm earbuds on my old phone and there was no audible hiss at all (OK, so quality wasn't great either, but for £20 you can get quite acceptable results) but now I have to use an adapter and none so far have been anywhere near as good as the onboard socket on my old device. Bluetooth is the same, they all seem to have a low-level background hiss, presumably from the integrated analogue audio amps running. 

Andre

[6b6561]

Could it be that the A54 runs the USB-C dongle in “Audio Accessory Mode” mode, which means that the AD conversion would happen on the phone instead of on the DAC of the dongle? Do you get the same hizzing with HiBy or USB Audio player?

Have you tried to disable automatic audio routing in the developer settings?

Guess I'm trying to ask if you know where the AD is happening, are you sure it's happening in the dongle or can it be already in the phone?

[andrewilley]

I don't think the A54 has analogue audio pass-through on the USB-C port - I  wish it did! These adapters all seem to be doing the D-to-A conversion within the dongle. Same hiss when I test it on a PC too. It's very low level, I probably wouldn't even notice it during the day with other noise around. However at night, when the room is silent, and I've got the phone volume set to about 5% (6-8 out of 150 steps) you can clearly hear it whenever the dongle is plugged in, regardless of whether anything is playing or not (that varies a bit from cable to cable; one of them clearly shut down the output stage when there was nothing playing).

Andre

[6b6561]

I can very well relate to your ordeal, went through it a couple of years ago. How come it's so hard to produce good quality low volume sound? Feels like everyone else want's more volume while you want less.

[andrewilley]

I find it's the same with TVs. I don't care how eye-searingly bright and vivid the latest model will go in its spec, or how many garish nits it can produce. I watch TV in a relatively dim room (often fully dark, if I'm watching a film or involving drama) so I want more subtle and accurate images, with 100% pure blacks so I can't see where the black letterbox bars end and the frame edge begins. That's why my TV is an OLED, and the brightness/panel light is set to around 50%.

Andre

[Loweaul]

Yeah so now it looks like an adapter's issue.

Anyway, I forgot that there's no passthrough option in PA, so I tried the same adapter via HiBy Music, and yes, still no hiss or anything else, tried different kinds of music and no background noise in my listening. Maybe you could have a test in HiBy next time, the answers are the same to me though.

And the lack of the power output to the adapter may also cause background noise, but it doesn't seem to be a problem here, anyway, hope the new one you just purchased would sovle the issue.

[andrewilley]

@Loweaul The JCALLY JM04PRO (their USB-C version of the one you mention, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004754152694.html ) was also on my radar while I was looking through the sites. That one uses the Realtek ALC5686 chip. Let's see how I get on when the Cirrus CS46L41 based one arrives anyway.

Andre

[6b6561]

Another solution could be to add a 3.5mm impedance adapter, add 30 ohm resistance.

[andrewilley]

@6b6561 True, but I'm annoyed enough about having one pointless inline adapter, never mind two.  And most of them only support stereo 3.5mm, not the extra connector for controls.  Could make my own I guess, but I'd prefer to be able to buy one that works properly in the first place - fingers crossed for the one coming from China.

Andre

[andrewilley]

So as an update to this saga, my Cirrus CS46L41 based cable has arrived from Aliexpress, and it sounds very nice - much more rounded sound than the other adapters I had tried, and much less hiss (not silent, but better). It can go up to 384k/32-bit too, and works fine with DVC enabled.

So this must be a win you say? Well very annoyingly the 3-button inline controls on my Android-spec headsets (play/pause/etc and volume) don't seem to work when connected to my Samsung Galaxy A54. I've tried three different headsets and none would issue play/pause or volume +/- events to my A54 when using this adapter. However using the same adapter and headsets with a Samsung A40, A70 & S21, and an Asus tablet, the buttons work fine. The three other previous inline DAC adapters that I've tried allowed inline buttons to work on the A54, but the sound was poorer.

I don't suppose anyone has any ideas why the specific combination of this adapter (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004763520790.html) and the Galaxy A54 prevents the inline buttons from working, when other adapters work fine on the A54, and this adapter works fine on other older devices? 

Andre

[Loweaul]

13 hours ago, andrewilley said:

So as an update to this saga, my Cirrus CS46L41 based cable has arrived from Aliexpress, and it sounds very nice - much more rounded sound than the other adapters I had tried, and much less hiss (not silent, but better). It can go up to 384k/32-bit too, and works fine with DVC enabled.

So this must be a win you say? Well very annoyingly the 3-button inline controls on my Android-spec headsets (play/pause/etc and volume) don't seem to work when connected to my Samsung Galaxy A54. I've tried three different headsets and none would issue play/pause or volume +/- events to my A54 when using this adapter. However using the same adapter and headsets with a Samsung A40, A70 & S21, and an Asus tablet, the buttons work fine. The three other previous inline DAC adapters that I've tried allowed inline buttons to work on the A54, but the sound was poorer.

I don't suppose anyone has any ideas why the specific combination of this adapter (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004763520790.html) and the Galaxy A54 prevents the inline buttons from working, when other adapters work fine on the A54, and this adapter works fine on other older devices? 

Andre

  Glad to hear that this adapter works better than the others.

  Well, about the issue you mentioned, could it be something with Android Settings? Since there's an option in MIUI which is related with earphone's button control, I don't know if there's some similar options in Samsumg, but you could also see the options for this in PA too, and I would like to suggest that using Hiby Music and turn on the passthrough for a comparison.