SONOS SUPPORT AND DLNA/UPNP SUPPORT

[Jon Kingsbury]

Hi, I have several smart speakers in the house including Sonos, Alexa and only one Chromecast device. I think Sonos and DLNA/UpNp is necessary if you want the app to remain viable in the short to medium term for those people who like to use other apps than the stock Sonos/Alexa apps (which are dire for music playback)

[andrewilley]

I seem to recall the issue was direct access to Sonos speakers was that it's a closed system, which is only accessible to other apps by paying them a licence fee.

DLNA output is planned for some point in the future though.

Andre

[Jon Kingsbury]

Thanks - wasn't sure about the Sonos ecosystem - however their app is awful. DLNA/UPNP would be good though.

[andrewilley]

44 minutes ago, Jon Kingsbury said:

wasn't sure about the Sonos ecosystem - however their app is awful.

|I know, my wife uses it and keeps complaining about how she can't find stuff or organise her music as she would like.

Andre

[maxmp]

@Jon Kingsbury DNLA “casting” is a planned feature, but no deadline set. DNLA blocker is that straightforward support for it will require doubling Poweramp APK size (+10mb) for the feature which I guess will be used by few percents of users (good if by 1%). Poweramp recently moved to Play bundles which allows “feature” download, so main APK may stay small and additional features are downloaded as needed, but there is still an issue for website (uni) builds.

As for Sonos, there is no open APIs to cast on it. May be AirPlay solution will work for it - AirPlay implementations, independent from Apply, do exist and can be integrated into Poweramp. Some open source Sonos casting libraries exist, but I guess it will be very hard to support this long term.

[Jon Kingsbury]

Thanks for the update - good app by the way!!

[MKRedding]

I can't speak for anyone else but if DLNA were some sort of plugin or optional install I wouldn't be mad. This is my default player and I've auditioned most of them and they pale in comparison. The only reason they are not on my Fiio players is that I can't figure out how to get it on them. Keep up the good work, ANY improvements would be greatly appreciated.

[itsarawut37]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:42 AM, maxmp said:

@Jon Kingsbury DNLA “casting” is a planned feature, but no deadline set. DNLA blocker is that straightforward support for it will require doubling Poweramp APK size (+10mb) for the feature which I guess will be used by few percents of users (good if by 1%). Poweramp recently moved to Play bundles which allows “feature” download, so main APK may stay small and additional features are downloaded as needed, but there is still an issue for website (uni) builds.

As for Sonos, there is no open APIs to cast on it. May be AirPlay solution will work for it - AirPlay implementations, independent from Apply, do exist and can be integrated into Poweramp. Some open source Sonos casting libraries exist, but I guess it will be very hard to support this long term.

 

[andrewilley]

@MKRedding PA can be installed on FiiO players, but unless you have set up access to the Google Play Store you would need to install it via an APK file downloaded from here on the website, and use a website-purchased licence. 

And yes, plugin support for different output methods does seem the ideal way to go without over-bloating the core app with features that only a tiny percentage of users will require.

Andre

[DerkWehler]

Didn't see a way to "vote" for this feature request, but I also would really like to be able to use Poweramp on Sonos, so I can skip their app.  For a while I was subscribing to Spotify (though I prefer Pandora) just because it had that feature: you could send it to Sonos.  I would likely be willing top pay a small fee for this feature if it costs to link to Sonos.

[andrewilley]

As Max said before, the problem with Sonos is that it's a closed ecosystem and they don't publish a free public open API interface in the same way that devices can connect via Bluetooth, Chromecast, etc. For PA to interface with Sonos there would need to be a licencing deal in place, which I'm guessing would be costed based on market size - i.e. the number of units of Poweramp in use, not just the number of users who happen to want to connect to Sonos devices. I think your idea of a 'small fee' would turn out to not just be pennies but could mount into tens of thousands per year. It's a shame as I'd like it too, but I can't see it happening unless they open up their interface.

I guess it would be possible for PA to set itself up as a server to 'broadcast' an audio stream via the LAN, and then you could go into the Sonos app and tune in to that broadcast stream, but it would be more fiddly than simply tapping a 'Stream to Sonos' button in PA like you can with Chromecast. There are longer term plans to support playback via DLNA/uPnP/etc, which would provide that functionality. Even a simple Shoutcast service ought to do the job.

Andre

[DerkWehler]

I do not know much about DLNA or uPnP as it related to sonos.  Would one of those avenues work to connect?  I guess Spotify must pay the licensing fee..(?)  Because they have a selection of which device to send to.

[andrewilley]

@DerkWehler   I don't think Sonos makes it especially easy, but I've not tried. I believe it can be done though.

Personally, I simply map my LAN NAS drive into the Sonos's local library system and play local files that way rather than using Poweramp. But the Sonos interface is dreadful, so simplistic (especially in terms of sorting) as to be almost useless. I think they see their main market as playing online subscription streaming services, hence their deal with Spotify etc.

Andre

[maxmp]

DLNA/upnp stuff wasn't integrated yet due to the huge size of the libraries needed to support that - these grow apk size twice or more. Now, with much larger storages available for modern files, it's quite possible and a planned feature. Larger APK size (20-30mb) still can be an issue for older devices and specifically limited devices such as headunits, TVs, etc. though.

[andrewilley]

@maxmp Would it be possible to release fairly isolated code modules - such as less-commonly used output methods - as optional plug-ins which could be installed by those who want them? Or would that just make everything more complicated if different users are running different variants?

Andre

[maxmp]

@andrewilley while it's possible, it's quite hard to manage and support such modules. It's very possible for Play where module management is semi-automatic and no user intervention is needed. For the website APK it's not possible, so website APK will be the fat one.

[mani_jeenu]

+1 for support for casting to Sonos speakers.

 

After the recent removal of local file playback in Sonos app. This is needed more than ever.

AirMusic and Hi-Fi Cast player have this implementation already and allow casting to Sonos speakers!?

[andrewilley]

@mani_jeenu See Max's earlier reply on this subject:

It would be nice if Poweramp could create its own Shoutcast-style service though, which could then be played on any device on the LAN/WLAN which supports Shoutcast listening (including Sonos).

Personally, I've blocked further updates from Sonos, and hopefully their new restrictions will not be implemented server-side.

Andre

[Paras Desai]

@maxmp  there exists an open-source Android app, Bubble Upnp, which support Sonos direct Streaming and audio cast. It is well featured,yet I put Poweramp a notch higher in terms of music quality. A kind of plugging is really appreciated. As streaming is becoming a way to go for music lovers all  over and Bluetooth SBC streaming does not produce good quality.

Hope to see some development on this front

Thanks

Paras