Some shuffle properties reverted to old version (2019) of Poweramp

[TBAce11]

Good evening everyone,

While I've seen tremendous progress in the application for the last 3 years, the latest update seems to have compromised the "Do not re-shuffle" option implemented for almost 3 years now. More specifically, when switching from "Shuffle All" to "Random shuffle of songs" for example, the shuffle gets systemically reset only to begin at the start of the queue. However, this isn't what used to happen when switching shuffle modes after maxmp incorporated the fix following my initial report: your progress was saved and you started from where you left off (original mode -> Shuffle All) after having listened to a playlist using a different shuffle mode (assuming you remember which song you stopped at before going to said playlist then back to the "global" shuffle). The new issue isn't so bad for now since sticking to the same shuffle mode while moving from playlist to playlist still saves your global library progress, but this will quickly become very problematic once I reach the end of a small playlist only to be forced to start it again with the same order of songs or if I desire to try a different shuffle mode. 

Phone specs: Poweramp build number 928-bundle-play on Pixel 3 running on Android 12

[andrewilley]

One of the things that is meant to trigger a reshuffle (as far as I'm aware anyway) is selecting a different shuffle mode - it kinda has to really, that's rather the point of having different modes. The 'No Reshuffle' option is meant to avoid reshuffling the randomised list if you merely commence playback of a new song from within the existing shuffle sequence.

Andre

[TBAce11]

Intuitively speaking, you would be absolutely right regarding the consequence of choosing a new shuffle mode, but the fact of the matter is that Poweramp never actually reset my original "Shuffle All" progress despite me triggering the main shuffle option for playlists when going for a jog or playing songs from a specific genre to suit the targeted audience (just to show how rare these events are compared to daily music listening). So for me to stay stuck on the same mode to keep my progress alive when we had it all since late 2019 thanks to maxmp and triggering said re-shuffle implied deactivating the "No Reshuffle" then choosing a different mode hardly makes any sense to me, especially since the feature remained somewhat intact for much more than a year. All I'm saying is that it jeopardizes the experience of those with a relatively big library that aren't using Poweramp for 1 single purpose and other services such as Spotify for the rest.

[TBAce11]

P.S. engaging a playlist's default shuffle mode or even selecting a random song from the lot is all it takes to change the default the shuffle mode automatically, feeling like the reset is forced upon me when reverting back to "Shuffle All".

[andrewilley]

I must admit I was not aware that Shuffle All Songs ever retained its old order when you changed shuffle modes. By definition, each time you ask for a new shuffle mode PA should rearrange the songs in a new way, that's what you've asked it to do. As a Playlist is independent of the main 'all songs' playback order, perhaps listening to a playlist (or the queue of course) might act as an exception, maybe Max can comment on this?

Andre

[TBAce11]

1 hour ago, andrewilley said:

I must admit I was not aware that Shuffle All Songs ever retained its old order when you changed shuffle modes. By definition, each time you ask for a new shuffle mode PA should rearrange the songs in a new way, that's what you've asked it to do. As a Playlist is independent of the main 'all songs' playback order, perhaps listening to a playlist (or the queue of course) might act as an exception, maybe Max can comment on this?

Andre

Convention wise, keeping the entirety of the songs and the selected playlists seperate shuffle-wise goes A LONG WAY in regards to my appreciation of PA. Heck, the volatile shuffle that I first discovered years ago was the first and only complaint I ever made here and Max brillantly delivered a solution in the following update. This new ordeal made me realize you could even dictate the randomness of the selected shuffle, which is probably going to remedy the problem on a short term basis, but believe me when I say that keeping the default shuffle's (All) order intact is crucial for users such as myself with a slowly expanding library that isn't big enough yet to avoid stumbling upon recently listened songs, which is probably why avid music fans with huge collections haven't stumbled upon the issue or are not even aware of its return due to the size of their library.

Also, just to be clear, the "Random shuffle of songs" option that I'm stuck at right now can only be used again in a playlist if I select a song itself, not the specifically tailored shuffle mode available in the top left corner of the collection. Selecting a new song in the main search bar resumes progress in the entire library, meaning all it truly does is limit the shuffle's size to the playlist's when making the switch.

Edited February 28, 2022 by TBAce11

[maxmp]

@TBAce11 I agree that Full Random option should be the default one and I that will be changed in the next builds. Those who are with large libraries and want unique shuffled songs, I hope, will find the option and change it accordingly.

[TBAce11]

18 minutes ago, maxmp said:

@TBAce11 I agree that Full Random option should be the default one and I that will be changed in the next builds. Those who are with large libraries and want unique shuffled songs, I hope, will find the option and change it accordingly.

Thanks max, I know you will! Please note that the problem really lies in the reset of songs' order while in "Shuffle All" mode after using a playlist's shuffle option. Other than that, PA seems to work flawlessly if we remain in the main music library without going anywhere else or switching shuffle modes. The first forced reset that occured was right after installing the latest update (only "major" event I can recollect) and adding new songs doesn't seem to be affecting the shuffle like it did 3 years ago, meaning that it is also dynamic.

Edited February 28, 2022 by TBAce11

[TBAce11]

@maxmpHow do you plan addressing the "issue" and how can we know when it'll be patched?

[andrewilley]

@TBAce11 Basically, anything that starts a new shuffled playback will clear any existing shuffle; there is no memory of any previous shuffle kept when you change categories. As it's just a random list it's pretty transient anyway, a new random list will get built.

Adding new songs (either to the library overall, or to a playlist) no longer triggers a reshuffle, like it used to a long time back. Any newly added songs are generally placed somewhere later in the existing shuffle sequence (i.e. after the current playback position).

Andre

[TBAce11]

@andrewilley Understandable, but does PA provide an alternative for those whose main goal is to randomly shuffle their entire collection only once and then re-shuffle when at the end + with the weekly playlist triggered for jogging/running/working out/etc. for an hour or so before resuming their progress within the entire collection? The application's current state does allow me to do so, but you must know that a playlist of less than 100 songs gets stale pretty quickly if no re-shuffle gets triggered before being done with the entire library, therefore it becomes static and played through multiple times with the same predictable order of songs. Switching shuffle modes isn't an option either based on what you just described since the chances of stumbling across a recent song in the main library will skyrocket and make the experience infuriating just like adding new songs did as you also pointed out. 

[andrewilley]

Just now, TBAce11 said:

does PA provide an alternative for those whose main goal is to randomly shuffle their entire collection only once and then re-shuffle when at the end + with the weekly playlist triggered for jogging/running/working out/etc. 

Yes, just add your whole library into one big shuffled playlist. It's really easy, just select All Songs and "+Playlist", then use its menu option to Re-sort the newly created playlist into a random order and you're good to go. Make sure you enable List Memory for both 'List Position' and 'Per-Track Progress' in the List Options for that playlist. Then whenever you want to go back to it, just tap on the Play icon at the top of that playlist, and playback will recommence exactly where you last left off.

Andre

[TBAce11]

4 hours ago, andrewilley said:

Yes, just add your whole library into one big shuffled playlist. It's really easy, just select All Songs and "+Playlist", then use its menu option to Re-sort the newly created playlist into a random order and you're good to go. Make sure you enable List Memory for both 'List Position' and 'Per-Track Progress' in the List Options for that playlist. Then whenever you want to go back to it, just tap on the Play icon at the top of that playlist, and playback will recommence exactly where you last left off.

Andre

Brilliant suggestion Andre, but what shall happen to the newly added songs? The process is automatic for me when it comes to the phone's storage updated through a third party cloud management application, so will it be the same thing for the addition of new songs to the newly created playlist containing the entire library? Or will I have to add them manually to the playlist every time a new batch arrives and then delete the doubles? If it is a manual process, how do I make sure they're added into a random order as well instead of being added at the end of the playlist?

Edited March 11, 2022 by TBAce11

[andrewilley]

You are correct that songs that have been newly added to the library won't appear in any pre-existing playlists - indeed that would generally be a very bad thing for most usages cases.

So even if you have created a playlist based on your original All Songs list, it will remain a "snapshot" of all the songs that were present the last time you worked on it. You could periodically use the 'Recently Added' category to add any new songs to this special Playlist, but those new songs would be added to the end of the Playlist, not shuffled within it (although there is a Feature Request to implement that as an option at some point in the future). You'd need to Re-sort the playlist again to muddle the new songs up, which of course isn't what you want to do either. Note: inadvertent duplicate copies can be automatically rejected by enabling Settings > Library > Playlists > Don't Add Duplicates. 

If you instead listen to the All Songs category in Shuffle mode, any newly added songs will get inserted into the shuffle sequence at some random later position - however you are then back to your original problem that there is only one shuffle sequence, so it would be lost quite easily and need shuffling again if you use other Poweramp playback modes in the meantime.

Your needs are so specific that I think the ONLY way to guarantee a shuffle sequence would stay in the same order forever, with any newly found tracks randomly being inserted randomly within it, is basically to not use Poweramp for other listening outside of your very specific chosen playback mode.

Andre

[TBAce11]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:47 AM, andrewilley said:

You are correct that songs that have been newly added to the library won't appear in any pre-existing playlists - indeed that would generally be a very bad thing for most usages cases.

So even if you have created a playlist based on your original All Songs list, it will remain a "snapshot" of all the songs that were present the last time you worked on it. You could periodically use the 'Recently Added' category to add any new songs to this special Playlist, but those new songs would be added to the end of the Playlist, not shuffled within it (although there is a Feature Request to implement that as an option at some point in the future). You'd need to Re-sort the playlist again to muddle the new songs up, which of course isn't what you want to do either. Note: inadvertent duplicate copies can be automatically rejected by enabling Settings > Library > Playlists > Don't Add Duplicates. 

If you instead listen to the All Songs category in Shuffle mode, any newly added songs will get inserted into the shuffle sequence at some random later position - however you are then back to your original problem that there is only one shuffle sequence, so it would be lost quite easily and need shuffling again if you use other Poweramp playback modes in the meantime.

Your needs are so specific that I think the ONLY way to guarantee a shuffle sequence would stay in the same order forever, with any newly found tracks randomly being inserted randomly within it, is basically to not use Poweramp for other listening outside of your very specific chosen playback mode.

Andre

My needs are indeed very specific, but I have pondered over this latest development (songs added at the end of the playlist only) and came up with an idea that should satisfy all PA fans alike: how about introducing a playlist feature that manages the integration/sorting of new songs the EXACT same way the user wants the playlist to be organized? That would be the random sort in my case, meaning new songs are randomly integrated in the playlist once moved in, but I assume most of us organize it alphabetically based on the title/artist/album/etc., making the process automatic and also optional since it could be toggled on/off from the menu like so many other options including the Settings > Library > Playlists > Don't Add Duplicates. Granted I'd need to add them all again (- the duplicates) every time a substantial quantity of new songs are added and the deleted ones would remain in the playlist until a new sort is introduced, making their identification and deletion much easier, but imposing the playlist's current sort method to the new ones would truly be a gamechanger regarding the playlists approach you suggested that I am starting to grow fond of. 

[andrewilley]

39 minutes ago, TBAce11 said:

a playlist feature that manages the integration/sorting of new songs the EXACT same way the user wants the playlist to be organized?

The problem is that Playlists are not organised, they are merely a pre-written group of songs to play, stored line by line. You can change that defined order using Re-sort, or by grabbing and moving songs up and down, or by editing the playlist externally - but after any manipulations, it is still just a sequential list of songs as far as Poweramp is concerned, to be played as listed.

Andre

[TBAce11]

4 minutes ago, andrewilley said:

The problem is that Playlists are not organised, they are merely a pre-written group of songs to play, stored line by line. You can change that defined order using Re-sort, or by grabbing and moving songs up and down, or by editing the playlist externally - but after any manipulations, it is still just a sequential list of songs as far as Poweramp is concerned, to be played as listed.

Andre

Fair enough, but can't Max dictate the position of the song since it's able to be added at the very end by default? If playlists are more of a concept/conventional order or even a list data structure like an Adaptable Priority Queue, can't it be an imposed standard to newer songs too?