Trackgain on shuffle

[Squeller]

Hi,

there should be an additional replaygain option:

- Apply album gain, but use trackgain if shuffling.

Because it makes a lot of sense 😊

Poweramp already has a useful shuffle related option (crossfade), so this would be another one.

Was possible in fb2k as well (with an addon). 

Tia, best wishes... 

[Squeller]

This should be a simple option.

BTW, Foobar2000 supports it natively meanwhile. It is called "By playback order". Because using album gain does not make sense when shuffling (cross-album material).

[6b6561]

Good idea! "automatic" ReplayGain has been requested a couple of times, in the form of "album mode" and "track mode". Good point that shuffle is actually "track mode".

ReplayGain modes should be:

• By album
• By track
• By playback order (This would be the "automatic" mode)

[andrewilley]

I think the third mode should simply be "Automatic", which would enable Album Gain only when playing a full album (either via Albums category, or Artists>Albums, etc). It should also use Album Gain when shuffling within a single album, but not when in more random song modes. Track Gain used all other times (Playlists, Folders, etc).

Andre

[6b6561]

My vote goes definitively to "Track gain" on all shuffles even if it's a album. I quite often shuffle albums and there can be quite severe jumps in levels. Reason for shuffle an album is a 30m commute by car and without shuffle I would always miss the last tracks of the album, pull out the album of the day, shuffle and hit the road.

[Squeller]

Yes. On all Shuffles. Reasonable and easy to implement. 

[andrewilley]

I'm actually a bit puzzled on this one. What is the logic behind wanting to use Album Gain for levelling the volume across (for example) ten tracks in an album when played 1,2,3,4,5... but to NOT use it when playing those same ten tracks but in a different order?

I completely understand and agree that Track Gain should always be used for completely random shuffles when each news song comes from somewhere unpredictable, but not why you'd want it when listening to one album, albeit in a different order ("Shuffle Songs, Categories in Order").

Andre

[6b6561]

"concept" albums as an example, there you can have tracks at lower/higher volume levels which makes sense if you listen to the complete album as it's intended to be enjoyed, but things gets interesting when the tracks are shuffled.

[andrewilley]

That's a pretty specific usage case though (same could be said of any gapless content, such as concerts where you don't want the gain to vary from one track to another). But it wouldn't bother me if Album Gain was still applied when listening to a concert or a concept album in a different order. It would be far more jarring that the track joins no longer fitted together to be honest - War of the Worlds in shuffle order would make no sense, and the mixed up segues in Oxygene would sound very odd whatever the gain settings.

Andre

[MotleyG]

7 hours ago, andrewilley said:

I'm actually a bit puzzled on this one. What is the logic behind wanting to use Album Gain for levelling the volume across (for example) ten tracks in an album when played 1,2,3,4,5... but to NOT use it when playing those same ten tracks but in a different order?

I completely understand and agree that Track Gain should always be used for completely random shuffles when each news song comes from somewhere unpredictable, but not why you'd want it when listening to one album, albeit in a different order ("Shuffle Songs, Categories in Order").

I think this is one of those personal choice ones. I could see both sides for the reason. Personally I don't normally listen to one album in shuffle mode, but certainly I do for Artists, AlbumArtists, and predominantly Genres. In these cases when shuffling the Track mode for Replaygain is definitely preferred, Album mode is only when listening to just a single album. At least my 2¢.

[w3wilkes]

It's my understanding that Album gain preserves the volume differences between tracks on the same album and then makes it so that if playing multiple albums the relative volume between the albums is kept the same.

ReplayGain - Wikipedia

Track gain would be used for multiple tracks from different albums / Album gain would be used when multiple albums are selected and played as albums.

[Squeller]

I wouldn't complicate it and ask Poweramp for album analysis etc.

Just use trackgain if some track level shuffling mode is on. That would already be a decent step forward. 

[andrewilley]

@w3wilkes Correct.

Track Gain simply creates a gain value based on the single highest peak level within the current track only.

Album Gain creates a gain value based on the highest peak level found in ANY track in the current album. That one gain value is then applied to all tracks from the same album. This avoids a deliberately quiet track being incorrectly boosted more than the rest of the album.

So when you are listening to all of the tracks from one album, the Album Gain tag should be used for all of them. But if you are listening to various tracks from different albums (e.g. during shuffle) then Track Gain ought to be used.

Andre

[Squeller]

I am convinced 2022 is the year this simple option makes its way into the best player 😁

[6b6561]

Let's hope so!